The Canadian Broadcast Standards Council has released two decisions today pertaining to the CTV broadcast of the three false starts of an interview with anchor Steve Murphy and then-Liberal leader Stephane Dion during the October 2008 federal election campaign. Anybody who has watched the video has likely squirmed uncomfortably at Mr.Dion’s inability to comprehend the question posed by Mr.Murphy, and requested that the interview be restarted several times after not being able to properly respond. That interview most assuredly would have had an effect on viewers regarding their voting preference, particularly as the level to which Mr.Dion was flummoxed would certainly unnerve many fence-sitting Liberal voters.
The first decision pertains to the first broadcast of the false starts that preceded the full interview on CTV News on October 9. The second one was related to the rebroadcast on Mike Duffy Live later that evening. The CBSC concluded that the airings violated the provisions of the Radio Television News Directors of Canada Code of Journalistic Ethics and the Canadian Association of Broadcasters’ Code of Ethics. The painful recollection:
Steve Murphy’s first question to Stéphane Dion was: “If you were prime minister now, what would you have done about the economy and this crisis that Mr. Harper has not done?” Dion started to answer the question, but then asked to start again because it was not clear to him whether Murphy meant if Dion had been prime minister for the last two years or if he were elected prime minister five days later in the general election. Murphy agreed to start again, but he did not clarify the confusing question. He simply re-asked it in more or less the same terms as the first instance. After two more restarts, the full uninterrupted interview followed. During it, Mr. Dion provided information about the Liberal economic plan, the proposed carbon tax, deficits, the green shift, taxes, comparable European national policies, and Canada’s military mission in Afghanistan.
CTV argued that the exchange needed to be broadcast because the public had the right to see how poorly Stephane Dion dealt with the question. But the issue was immediately volatile, and Canadians complained to the CBSC by asserting that Mr.Murphy’s question was awkwardly worded, and that Mr.Dion had comprehension difficulties, particularly as English was not his first language. A CBSC panel reviewed the complaints, and concluded that the question was confusing:
“confusing, and not only to a person whose first language is other than English. In the strictest grammatical sense, Steve Murphy’s question mixes not only tenses (present and past), but also moods (subjunctive and indicative),” so “blame for misapprehension cannot simply be laid at the feet of the interviewee.”
The panel also concluded that the broadcast breached Article 8 of the RTNDA Code because it had promised not to air the interview to the Liberals. The rebroadcast in Mike Duffy Live was in contravention to Clause 6 of the CAB Code of Ethics. Two adjudicators, however, dissented, by saying that the outtakes were newsworthy. The broadcaster has since been ordered to announce the council decision twice in the same time slot as the outtakes were broadcast.
My position on the issue is clear, and has remained unchanged since the initial broadcast. The Dion outtakes were newsworthy because of the level of confusion to which Mr.Dion displayed based upon a simple question. I can allow that the question was not worded in perfect English, and that it is not Mr.Dion’s first language. But that’s really what is at stake in an interview with someone who wants to become Prime Minister of a country where the vast majority of people are unilingual Anglophones, isn’t it? Most Canadians who speak English as a first language understood the question immediately. Mr.Murphy was commenting on the fact that Stephane Dion had been hammering Prime Minister Harper for months on the economy, and asked what he would have done differently, had he been Prime Minister and not Stephen Harper, to create better circumstances for the economy. It was a direct, simple, and basic question that nobody should have required three false starts to get right. Certainly not a man who wanted to represent all Canadians in the highest office.
While CTV may have been handed down the decision by the CBSC because it violated the letter of the law of journalistic ethics, the fact is that they performed a valuable service to journalism by airing that video to Canadians. It was definitely newsworthy, relevant to Canadian voters, and demonstrated aptly how unqualified Mr.Dion was for the position in which he was applying to Canadians.
















May 27, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Dion proved the point again with his amateurish video presentation on behalf of “la coalition phantasmagorique”, per the Quebec media description.
On that point, the Quebec media is mo more forgiving for language gaffes and mispronunciations when English Canadian politicians seek to address a Quebec audience, and fully expect them to be able to spar with their own best contenders in a war of words.
So quit feeling sorry for Dion, the Liberals chose him, let them live with their choice of champion.
May 27, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Dion proved the point again with his amateurish video presentation
That he did, Dupmar, that he did. I was going to include that in my analysis, but I felt the article was already getting a little long in the tooth,
May 27, 2009 at 8:51 pm
“Mr.Murphy was commenting on the fact that Stephane Dion had been hammering Prime Minister Harper for months on the economy, and asked what he would have done differently, had he been Prime Minister and not Stephen Harper, to create better circumstances for the economy. It was a direct, simple, and basic question that nobody should have required three false starts to get right.”
That’s funny, because I remember arguing with a number of your colleagues on BT blogs who thought the question was referring to what Dion would be doing now, and not what he would have done.
Frankly, I am not sure how anyone who is literate, and who has learned a second language, could think that question was anything but confusing in the way it was worded. That is why I suspect this non-partisan body found it to be confusing and has reprimanded CTV for that.
I suppose we are going to hear a bunch of your colleagues claim the CBSC is biased against the CPC too now.
Sigh…
May 27, 2009 at 9:23 pm
I don’t think the CBSC is biased. I just think that they took the literal wording of the phrase and parsed it grammatically in order to question whether it could be confusing. Had it been asked to most English-speaking Canadians, they would have been able to understand it without incident. It’s really a very obvious question when you think about it. What else could Mr.Murphy have possibly been trying to ask, other than what Stephane Dion would have done any differently, seeing as he never offered up any examples himself.
And I’ll allow CTV broke the technical ethical standards for journalism, but in the process they provided a valuable piece of information to Canadians, which in and of itself is newsworthy, and as such can be considered in the “public interest”.
May 27, 2009 at 9:37 pm
It was fair game and the public deserved to see the footage. The Trudeau Liberals ran an election campaign around an image of Stanfield dropping a football, as if the fact he wasn’t quality material for the Ottawa Rough Riders reflected on his party’s program and his ability to govern.
May 27, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Again, I want to point out that several people I discussed this with just after it happened thought he was being asked what he would do now (as in, as of the date of the interview), not what would he have done had he been Prime Minster for the past two years.
Accordingly, I take issue with your contention that the question was simple. Clearly it causes confusion even with people whose first language is English.
May 27, 2009 at 9:44 pm
So, is Dion going to ask for ANOTHER do-over now?
May 27, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Dupmar,
Recall Dion’s inability to score a goal during that street hockey photo op? *shudder*
May 27, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Gayle,
I fully allot that you, or several other people, may have found it confusing. Without intentionally being rude or arrogant, I found it straightforward, and really, the only relevant question he could have asked at that point. Everybody had been asking Dion for weeks and weeks what he would have done differently, since he seemed to know exactly what the solution to the economy is. In fact Dion’s tenure was marked by an inability to articulate. And when he did try to articulate, painful as it was, there was nothing of substance to come out. We’ll never actually know what Dion’s miracle cure for the economy was supposed to be.
The Green Shaft?
May 27, 2009 at 9:51 pm
RA – the fact that any of us found it confusing means that it was confusing.
A straightforward question is one that everyone can understand.
For that matter, I still do not agree with your interpretation of the question. If I recall correctly, Dion asked several times for clarification and that clarification was not forthcoming. When I first heard the question I thought it meant the same thing you did. When I heard the clarifications I was completely confused. So, I suggest if you are going to analyze the question you need to do so in its full context.
May 27, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Gayle,
Whether you, personally, found it confusing isn’t really the issue here. What was the issue is whether a prospective Prime Minister who will need to deal with difficult questions and situations, should find such a question so confusing, and particularly to appear so utterly unable to handle the question after repeated false starts. He turns to his handlers repeatedly for help. Hell, he practically threw up his arms and shrugged in that immortal shot “do you tink its izzy to make priorities?”
Nevertheless, I concede that if you were running for Prime Minister and made similar gaffes, I might also consider Gayle to be unsuitable for the highest office. But then again, you’d also have to forward an utterly unsuitable agenda of a half-crocked carbon tax.
May 27, 2009 at 10:03 pm
This is not an issue of sentence construction.
If a politician claims that his opponent is not doing his job properly, the politician must expect to be asked the question, “What would you have done instead?”
It is clear that Mr. Dion did not have an answer to that very simple and inevitable question, no matter how it was phrased.
THAT is the reason he was confused.
May 27, 2009 at 10:04 pm
John,
That is exactly it. You are correct.
May 27, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Gee RA – you are now suggesting that prospective Prime Ministers have to be mind readers, as apparently they must always understand what people are saying, even when those people are speaking gibberish.
I prefer people who are able to competently run the country be our Prime Minister. The ability to understand a poorly worder, grammatically incorrect question asked in their second language is not one of them. And before you start talking about meeting other world leaders and diplomats, I should point out to you that in almost every other situation where Dion would have faced such a poorly worded question he would have been assisted by translators. It is only because this was done as a media interview that he did not have that assistance.
May 27, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Gayle,
I submit Dion understood the question and did not have an answer for it.
And as I say, it wasn’t poorly worded. Anyone would have known that the question was coming. Dion was hammering on Harper for his economic record, saying he was spending too much of the Liberal surplus. Murphy was saying, allright Stephane, what would you have done to attend to your agenda while not spending all this money?
It was a simple, obvious, direct question. Everybody knew it was coming. Everybody, it would seem, except for Dion. Which beggars belief.
May 27, 2009 at 10:14 pm
No John – that is NOT it. If that was all this was about the CBSC would have come to a different conclusion.
Unless, of course, you are suggesting that Stephane Dion, PhD, renowned scholar, is actually stupid. Too stupid to have an answer for such an obvious question…
Or maybe you missed all those comments by the LPC, and Dion, complaining about how Harper frittered away the surplus with ill advised tax cuts. Maybe you missed that stuff about how the LPC supported income tax cuts, and not consumer tax cuts, as endorsed by all those economists.
Odd that he would want to avoid answering a question that he had already answered time and time and time again.
May 27, 2009 at 10:15 pm
“I submit Dion understood the question and did not have an answer for it.”
And I submit this is a painful excuse to justify your position.
See my post above. If you really want to go with “Dion is stupid and a liar” then go right ahead. It makes you look foolish, but that is not my problem.
May 27, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Oh, and I suppose Dion is just lucky that the question was asked in such a fashion. Just think, if the interviewer had only asked a straightforward question like “how would you have handled the economy over the past two years if you had been in Harper’s position”, he never would have been able to hide the fact he had no answer.
(not that I am conceding that is the question he was facing).
May 27, 2009 at 10:23 pm
I don’t have a position beyond the fact that Dion was a painful person to listen to speaking, would have been a terrible leader for Canada, and the interview cemented that impression forever in my mind.
Sheesh, even dredging up that video on YouTube has me shuddering at what might have been.
May 27, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Well, you certainly seem to be taking the position the question was not confusing and easily understandable…by you anyway.
But if you are abandoning that position, then cudos for doing so.
May 27, 2009 at 10:27 pm
It’s gratifying to see that this Liberal backbencher still has defenders. Unfortunately the Canadian public did not deem him “competent”, nor it appears the majority of Liberal supporters who have rallied behind a new leader.
And truth be told, this actually brings some relief to Bloc supporters. In the Quebec pantheon of saints and demons, Dion ranks as a spawn of Satan somewhere behind Trudeau and Chretien, and it was a major source of embarassment for Duceppe to rally his troops behind this man as “leader”, embarassment only offset by the promise of spoils and booty for the taking.
May 27, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Well that has nothing to do with the topic, but thanks for sharing.
May 27, 2009 at 11:12 pm
I hardly think it’s the prerogative of Liberal Party supporters to determine what the topic is for each and every discussion on this site.
But on the subject of Dion, this man was and remains a constitutional scholar dragged out of his element by Chretien and thrust into the political world, and he remains ill at ease in the world of politics.
I attended Laval during the same time frame as Dion, in a different field of graduate studies, and I have to say he was a bit of a non entity as far as politics go. During these heady days, the PQ in power, the upcoming referendum, Levesque visiting to campaign, Bourassa visiting, numerous meetings and events, Dion was a non entity. One might have expected the future champion of Canada to play a major part, or even a minor role. If Dion was in attendance, he certainly didn’t speak up and let his thoughts be heard.
Truth is he was a scholar, not a political campaigner or agitator, and had a reputation for what we termed ” les rats de bibliotheque”, those who lived in the library.
It does not surprise me that years later he failed to receive the approval of the Canadian public, sufficient confidence to be deemed a leader. He was clearly out of his element.
May 28, 2009 at 1:32 am
Oh brother. Not again.
The fact is there is not one engish speaker in Canada who did not understand the gist of the question. It was pretty obvious. There is no way Dion was “caught by surprise” in either English or French by a soft ball question like that. He was either looking for a loop hole to get around a question he didn’t like or he is a complete idiot.
The question was …”Mr. Dion, you have been saying for days now that Harper (lied, mismanaged, misled, whateva) …blah blah. What would you have done differently as PM?” [insert talking point here]
THAT is the classic SOFTBALL question in any language.
Gawd, Bob Rae could have answered that in Cantonese with his mouth full.
May 28, 2009 at 2:13 am
Raphael,
The point is the media are not going to change the debating rules or interview rules simply because Dion had some difficulty. John Crosbie thought he could bring a translator with him to leadership debates. The Party disagreed with him. Respective political party supporters have the obligation to pick the right person for the role of leader. Clark did very poorly in the French language debate with Trudeau, it was like squaring off Muhamed Ali and, well, Joe Clark in the ring, Trudeau danced verbal circles around Clark, the Quebec media had a lot of fun, but Clark did win that election.
May 28, 2009 at 6:17 am
“The fact is there is not one engish speaker in Canada who did not understand the gist of the question.”
Not a fact. As I already pointed out, after the interview people were talking about how the question referred to what Dion would do right now. But you can keep making things up if it makes you feel better.
“The question was …”Mr. Dion, you have been saying for days now that Harper (lied, mismanaged, misled, whateva) …blah blah. What would you have done differently as PM?” ”
And if this was the question, it is a shame the interviewer did not ask it in this plain and straightforward manner.
May 28, 2009 at 10:57 am
Gayle:
Irregardless of if the question was confusing, Dion couldn’t answer either question well.
Liberals have spent time castigating Bush for misunderstanding questions and giving awkward answers for the last 8 years. But its not okay when the same thing happens to Dion? Give me a break.
May 28, 2009 at 11:02 am
Bush spoke English as a first language, answered those questions that were posed to him in English, and did not have to face such a confusing grammatically incorrect question.
As for your contention Dion could not answer either question “well” – that is just a matter of what party you support. I do not think Harper answers many questions well either – even though the questions posed to him are done fairly, conherently and are easily comprehended.
May 28, 2009 at 12:49 pm
“And I’ll allow CTV broke the technical ethical standards for journalism, but in the process they provided a valuable piece of information to Canadians”
I guess that since you find the Charter to be a “techinical difficulty” in our previous discussions of extraordinary rendition, I shouldn’t be surprised that you approve of a “technical” breach of ethics as long as the outcome is tou your liking Raphael.
The question was confusing. CTV broke their agreement by airing it. What more needs to be said?
The trouble with the “new Conservatives” in this country is that none of them think ahead when it come to things like this. If you think it’s fine for CTV toi have done what they did, then what’s to stop a reporter from tripping up Harper in french? Which, btw, would be very easy to do.
May 28, 2009 at 1:56 pm
The more important thing in my mind is not the fact that Dion didn’t understand the question, or whether or not the question was confusing. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. To me, what’s important is how Dion handles a situation that he does not understand. What if the interview was live and not being taped? If you can’t understand the question, rather than getting all flustered under the pressure of the spotlight, I would have had a lot more respect for him if he simply proceeded to confidently offer the best answer he could to his interpretation of the question, and simply move on. He didn’t do that. He caved under the pressure, and that pressure was far less than many of the situations he could encounter as Prime Minister. That says a lot about how the man might perform in a pressure situation. The actual content of his answer is secondary to me.
May 28, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Well Dave, if he had not been promised a do-over, he might have done just that.
If you have ever been interviewed by the media you know do-overs are common, and you also know you handle live interviews differently than you do taped ones.
May 28, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Gayle,
Let us not compare English speaking politicians to Dion’s gaffes then. Let us compare him to French ones. The calm and poise shown by Duceppe, or Chretien, even if they mangle the English language, is what made them leaders for their party. Hell, look at Pierre Trudeau debate in English on YouTube.
Dave is correct. What was important was how Dion utterly caved under the weight of the moment.
May 28, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Peter,
The question was confusing. CTV broke their agreement by airing it. What more needs to be said?
That it was a valid piece of news and worthy of public attention and that I thank CTV for airing it. As I say, it cemented in my mind the theory that Dion was utterly lost in the position he’d fallen accidentally into.
Face it. The man was painful to watch and listen to. Ignatieff is, quite frankly, like a lullaby in comparison.
May 28, 2009 at 3:20 pm
If you are going to do comparisons, then you need to do one with a grammatically incorrect tense shifting question.
Got any examples of Chretien or Duceppe being asked a question like that?
Dave is wrong. You just cannot accept that.
May 28, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Oh, and again, you have to understand the dynamics of a live interview are totally different from a taped one, and that the interviewee will conduct himself differently as a result.
I believe my perspective is different because I have been interviewed several times by the media. I always ask if I can have a do-over if necessary, and if the interview is live I simply answer the question as best I can.
Maybe that is why the reporters I spoke to after this incident were all disgusted by the conduct of this reporter – because they understand the dynamics at play and realize that CTV was in the wrong – as confirmed by yesterday’s ruling.
May 28, 2009 at 3:25 pm
The point, boiled down to it’s most basic substance, is that the release of the interview was a good thing because it showed Dion’s fair lack of ability as a leader. I am glad CTV released it.
End of story.
May 28, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Gayle Says: Well Dave, if he had not been promised a do-over, he might have done just that.
Well that’s just a load of crap! Dion actually started into giving his answer, and only asked for a do-over after he realized that he was floundering and talking gibberish in his answer. He started caving before the interview was stopped.
Whatever Dion was told, it’s obvious that he cracked. He simply did not know how to handle himself.
As to the specific issue of CTV airing the interview after saying they would not… I’m not an expert in broadcast standards. Perhaps they did broke some sort ‘broadcasters code’. I don’t really care, but I’m glad they did. How Dion handled himself is very truth revealing and relevant to me.
I liken this situation to a priest breaking confidentiality and testifying against a criminal that confessed to him. The priest would have broken a rule, and you can punish him for doing it, but it would not change the fact that the confessor committed the crime.
May 28, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Gee RA – if all it takes to establish an argument is to say “end of story” then why do we bother educating people on the importance of informing themselves.
Apparently you learned the finer points of debate when you were in junior high.
May 28, 2009 at 4:23 pm
“Dion actually started into giving his answer, and only asked for a do-over after he realized that he was floundering and talking gibberish in his answer.”
No, he asked for his do-over because he wanted to be clear about what the question meant. When he asked for clarification the interviewer just made it more confusing rather than clarify.
And the reason the reporters I spoke to were so disgusted was not just because of the agreement for the do-over. It was also because the question was poorly worded and the clarification was not forthcoming, and the end result was an unfair, some might say dishonest, representation of the interview and Dion’s answer.
May 28, 2009 at 4:38 pm
That’s because we aren’t debating. You believe that Dion misunderstood the question and I do not. There is no true way to determine what happened.
Second, I believe it was good that CTV released the video and you do not. There is no debate to be had there. It’s a matter for personal preference.
May 28, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Sure – and you are ignoring the facts underlying the issue and I am not.
End of story.
May 28, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Raphael,
I do not believe one interview makes or breaks an election, the public has multiple opportunities to assess the qualities of those offering to lead, that’s why it’s a campaign, not a one day affair. Apparently some Liberal supporters still hold to the belief Dion was the right man for the job, and would have succeeded but for being kneecapped and crippled by a bad interview. They cast about seeking someone or something to blame, rather than face the admission perhaps they made the wrong choice for leader last time around.
They would be better advised to focus on their current leader rather than lamenting the fate of their previous one.
May 28, 2009 at 9:18 pm
I suggest that interview had very little to do with the election results. I think it had more to do with the fact Harper started referring to Prime Minister Dion, because while people were certainly disenchanted with Harper, they also bought his lies about the Green Shift.
That said, I am happy the CBSC exonerated Dion and exposed CTV for their dishonesty.
May 28, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Gayle,
You are amusing for your persistence, even if you can’t let a dead argument go.
You would have made a damn fine suffragette.
May 29, 2009 at 6:19 am
RA – you made a statement that you cannot support with facts. Faced with facts that counter your statement, you decide the argument is “dead”. You then go on to mock me for pointing that out.
That is kind of cute, but not particularly mature.
May 29, 2009 at 6:38 am
The CBSC were more consistent in their ‘decisions’ they would be credible in this case.
What did they have to say about Krista Ericson when she was interfering with thr Schrieber-Mulroney proceedings?
What did they decide when Bob Fife called CPC MP’s knuckledraggers?
Do we have the identities of the CBSC..or do they hide in behind their title, like the HRC’s?
May 29, 2009 at 9:11 am
Ah yes, the old “they’re left wing fanatics anyway” defense. Surprising how often the so-called conservatives in this country use that one when the decision doesn’t go their way. How about we just disband the CBSC? WEe don’t need those commie-loving pinkos anyway…they just get in the way of our “One Canada, One People, One Leader” vision of Canada anyway…
No need to debate the justice of this decision. Just throw a little mud and be done with it.
May 29, 2009 at 11:00 am
If you note, I predicted claims of bias in my first post, so I am not surprised.
In any event, it appears from my cursory look at the CBSC site that an actual complaint has to be made before they get involved, so maybe bluetech should contact them about his complaints.
As for Ericson, if I recall CBC and the reporter acknowledged the misbehaviour, something CTV had to be forced to do.
May 29, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Heh. Time for another entry in the Patels-English dictionary:
bi·as (bs)
n.
1. A line going diagonally across the grain of fabric: Cut the cloth on the bias.
2.
a. A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.
b. An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice.
c. An act or policy by any judicial or quasi-judicial body in Canada that impugns or contradicts any stated opinion of any CPC supporter, esp Werner Patels.
3. A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.
4. Sports
a. A weight or irregularity in a ball that causes it to swerve, as in lawn bowling.
b. The tendency of such a ball to swerve.
5. The fixed voltage applied to an electrode.
I thought I’d beat Werner to the punch this time…