It’s Not The Time For Opening The Abortion Debate

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I don’t say that as someone who more or less supports the concept of limited abortion rights, nor do I deny there is a strong socially conservative movement that has been waging battle for a chance to open the abortion debate for years. It is certainly within the constitutional freedoms of Canadians to seek out the kind of laws and legislation that they believe in, even when, in this case, it happens to impinge upon the personal freedom of other Canadians. But this is not the time to open the abortion debate again. In fact it’s not even remotely appropriate for a myriad of reasons.

The first reason is obvious. Stephen Harper. This isn’t a man who has governed under the banner of ideological conservatism, either socially or fiscally, and he hasn’t shown any signs of changing that attitude. Some people, on both sides, believe he has an underlying belief system that will come to the fore when, or if the Party receives a majority mandate. I don’t actually believe Stephen Harper is an ideological man, but I concede that a majority government would likely garner a more conservative styled government. But the painfully evident fact that Stephen Harper’s grasp on power is tenuous at best, as a little thing called “prorogation” should remind us of, should tell us that the last thing the party needs right now is to start scaring up support for the coalition with talk about opening the abortion debate.

So can and will the M.P.’s in Parliament ignore the will of their leader on this issue and attempt to create a wedge of their own principled accord? That remains to be seen. Quasi-abortion bills, like C-484 [which I supported], shows that it can be done. But even C-484 was explained in a very delicate manner that insisted the rights of women to choose would not be compromised, and it still met with fierce opposition from critics. And now that Conservative for Winnipeg South, Rod Bruinooge, has come out with an article that seeks to bring the abortion issue into the light, it would seem that Stephen Harper will certainly have his hands full on damage control. Rod Bruinooge has been elected chair of the Parliamentary Pro-Life Caucus, which is supposed to be a multi-partisan campaign to bring about a pro-life wedge in the House of Commons. I acknowledge this is a perfectly legitimate and democratic attempt to bring about discussion on the issue.

But aside from the fact that it will damage the Conservatives politically, strengthen the near-dead coalition, and alienate Stephen Harper from a party that usually tows the line, there are other reasons, provided by a Conservative, to reconsider this at present:

As a partisan and strategic move, the last thing the Tories need is to embrace this suggestion. The Conservatives’ platform explicitly refused to support any law which would limit the right to an abortion, and Harper seemed fine with that. Not only would moving on this issue constitute an actual breaking of a promise to add on to what everyone only thinks are broken promises (e.g. election dates), but it would reinforce this idea that the Tories are “mean” and “ideological” governors right when those criticisms are gaining traction.

There is a very strong, and that may be an understatement, pro-life movement among conservative bloggers, and for evidence of this you need look no further than today’s article by Joanne. I have every respect for her views, and those of her contributors, and she is merely expounding on a firm belief that a great deal of Canadians want to have a frank and honest and open discussion about abortion. And one day, so will I. But what I, as a non-partisan blogger who did happen to vote Conservative last election do not understand, is why Joanne and her many avidly partisan Conservative readers would want to jeopardize what seems to me a very tenuous grasp on power that the government currently enjoys. If I were a partisan who believed in victory at any cost, and I think Mr.Harper very much fits that bill to a “T”, the last thing I should want right now is my supporters carrying the torch [and pitchforks] on this clearly very divisive wedge issue.

CLARIFICATION-DATE

I wanted to clarify that Joanne’s readers are not all avidly partisan, nor are they all pro-life, and I did not intend to characterize her blog in that manner. Reading through the comments just now I can spot about four or five of her regulars who think broaching this issue would be a mistake.

Also see: Warren Kinsella, an open supporter of Michael Ignatieff, has the long knives out for the Conservatives [Link]

And from Trusty Tory: Keep the Wingnuts Quiet

“Brian Mulroney allowed this sucker to die for a reason. It’s political suicide and opens a pandora’s box of technicalities.”

39 Responses to “It’s Not The Time For Opening The Abortion Debate”

  1. Joanne (T.B.) Says:

    There is a very strong, and that may be an understatement, anti-abortion movement

    No, it is not an ‘anti-abortion’ movement, it is a pro-life movement. But more than that, it is a free-speech movement.

    And it is a non-partisan movement, because clearly this issue will never be resolved by politicians. It will be resolved by the collective pressure of the common people upon those politicians who are beholden to them for votes.

  2. Raphael Alexander Says:

    Fair enough Joanne. I will amend the text to read pro-life instead. I also acknowledge you have a right to espouse your views on abortion, and that it can be [and sometimes is] multi-partisan. What I meant by my comment on that is that you would think that you, as a partisan, and in particular many of your readers who are also very avid fans of the CPoC, would not support such a contentious issue at this time.

    Note that I don’t particularly object to your movement, but to your sense of timing.

  3. Alberta Girl Says:

    I agree RA – which begs the question – why now?? Why is this “secret” committee, which has existed for over a decade if not longer; all of a sudden in the news?

    And WK posting about Hidden Agenda’s.

    This may be about free speech and yes, we have never HAD a debate on this; but one needs to look under all the rocks to find the snakes.

  4. Raphael Alexander Says:

    AG,

    I hadn’t seen the Warren Kinsella post on this. Now that he’s announced his political backing and behind-the-scenes operations for Ignatieff, he’s lost a lot of credibility for any sort of neutrality on any issue he blogs on.

  5. Mac Says:

    What debate? Pro-life advocates position is entrenched and inflexible. The pro-choice advocates position is equally entrenched and equally inflexible. They don’t so much debate as they scream the same tired cliches back and forth at each other.

    The abortion dispute is one of the more divisive and damaging topics, bar none. During a time when our parliament is already like a minefield soaked in napalm, do we really need someone playing with matches?

  6. Raphael Alexander Says:

    Mac,

    I think you fairly accurately nailed it on the head there.

  7. Alberta Girl Says:

    Iggy’s quote from The Rights Revolution (2000)

    ““There is no more effective way to deny the rights of others than to claim that they are denying yours”

    seems apropo in this case. Makes you wonder…….

  8. Bec Says:

    Let’s imagine for a moment that a committee chair was asked by his local paper for an interview and he accepted. The questions were asked and answered truthfully, after all the non-partisan committee has existed for what,10 years?

    The bored, national papers pick it up and voila, a big news day.
    Well maybe, if there was any news..
    What a good attempt at trying to make some though. Spin, spin, spin!

  9. JJ Says:

    “…why Joanne and her many avidly partisan Conservative readers would want to jeopardize what seems to me a very tenuous grasp on power that the government currently enjoys.”

    Because they’re ideologues, and the word “Abortion” causes a primitive response in their lizard brain. They just react without considering the implications of “revisiting The Debate” — political suicide.

    Reality check: in most of this country, being anti-choice is a political liability. Why else would the membership of this “Pro-Life Caucus” have to be such a big secret? Bruinooge might be an idiot, but Harper isn’t. He’s not walking this dog.

    Look: we spent 20 years on “The goddamn Debate”, and finally won it 20 years ago. People need to get over it and learn how to mind their own business.

  10. Raphael Alexander Says:

    Bec,

    I have to admit that it looks like it has been a “much ado about nothing” kind of journalistic scoop. Amazing that a $54 Billion E.I. slush fund by the Liberals gets 15 minutes of scrutiny, but this is headlined in bright shiny lights.

  11. Raphael Alexander Says:

    JJ,

    Your characterization of Joanne notwithstanding, I agree that at present it is political “suicide”. Which is why Stephen Harper has promised not to make it part of any Conservative policy.

  12. Fay Says:

    I have no interest in opening up discussion or debating the Pro-life or pro choice issue. This whole subject leaves me “cold”. As far as I am concerned it is none of my business.

  13. Raphael Alexander Says:

    Fay,

    You’re probably in strong company with that thought as well. While I’m uncomfortable with the idea of having no restrictions on abortion at all, I think many Canadians would rather leave it be.

  14. Mac Says:

    Do we really need more legislation which is guaranteed to be authoritarian by it’s very nature? Social conservatives aren’t having abortions. They want to control the behaviour of those who don’t share their belief systems. At this point, there are no legislative restrictions on abortion but no-one can force a doctor to perform an abortion. What can be more authoritarian than legislation preventing the choice of a doctor to perform an abortion on a woman who chose to seek such?

    Any legislation would literally be a battle line. Don’t go there.

  15. Raphael Alexander Says:

    Mac,

    You make a good point, and I actually wrote something similar to what you said about doctors earlier, but I deleted it because I don’t have actual proof of ethical trends among doctors in abortion.

    I do support eventually legislating abortion, if only to say there are “reasonable limits” on the medical procedure.

  16. Wayne Says:

    Abortion is between the woman and her deity, not the church or state. We need to let this debate go.

  17. JJ Says:

    “I do support eventually legislating abortion, if only to say there are “reasonable limits” on the medical procedure.”

    Why? Doctors have already self-imposed “reasonable limits” on the procedure. That’s why there are no “moments before delivery” abortions (or even 3 months before delivery, without the most dire emergency). Doctors won’t perform them — it’s that simple.

    A law would just codify the status quo, so the only purpose served by having one would be to satisfy the nanny statist social conservatives who can’t stand the thought of not having Big Daddy Government dictate our every move.

  18. Joanne (T.B.) Says:

    That’s why there are no “moments before delivery” abortions

    None? Ever? Where do we get the stats for number of abortions by age of fetal development? I am looking for the facts. Thanks.

  19. tori Says:

    none are done in canada

  20. Joanne (T.B.) Says:

    Tori, they’re done in the States and then we pay for them, right?

  21. tori Says:

    and the thing tho is that it is the woman’s body. It’s not mine.

    Abortion aside, I know that many conservatives are against a nanny state, where the govt of the day tells people how they should live their lives…because they know better than us pleebs.

    We all have a choice with our own bodies. I can choose to carry the baby, to put it up for adoption or to abort it. MY choice. I would never consider that my own thoughts of what is right for me should automatically be right for someone else- because it can’t. I do not know what is best for others- only myself.

    As for the late term abortions, or any abortions for that matter, would you be content with just getting the procedure off the govt dole?

  22. Joanne (T.B.) Says:

    Tori, thanks for your reply. I don’t think I’ll get into the abortion debate right now, because for me it’s not the issue.

    The issue is the right to discuss it.

    However, now is not the time.

  23. Alberta Girl Says:

    And here we are, doing EXACTLY what THEY want – fighting amongst ourselves over this issue instead of focusing on the real fight.

  24. Joanne (T.B.) Says:

    That’s right AG. I’m jumping off my soapbox right now!

  25. issachar Says:

    Mac,

    There certainly are entrenched and inflexible positions in the abortion debate, but that is not to say that every position is entrenched and inflexible, nor does it mean that no compromise is possible.

    The “pure” pro-life position is that life begins at conception and all abortion terminates human life and is thus always murder. At the earlier stages of pregancy this does not make sense to many people so they do not agree with this position.

    The “pure” pro-choice position is that abortion should be a woman’s at all times during pregnancy which necessarily implies that life begins at birth. This means that 8 month terms fetuses are not “human” even though the could survive if they were born. This also does not make sense to many people so they do not agree with this position.

    Frequently it’s the same people disagreeing with both positions.

  26. issachar Says:

    JJ…

    “A law would just codify the status quo”
    REALLY? If thats the case, then objecting to the codification of the status quo seems rather silly doesn’t it? Why would pro-choice advocates not just codify the status quo and take the wind out of their opponents sails?

  27. issachar Says:

    And to the may Nanny state comments…

    Nanny state comments miss the point. Nanny state is when the government tells people what they can do to themselves, not when the state puts rules on what you can do to non-consenting third parties. That’s just normal law.

    The abortion debate is over whether or not a third party exists. “Nanny state” claims are a logical fallacy. You’re assuming the point you’re trying to prove.

  28. JJ Says:

    Issachar – “REALLY? If thats the case, then objecting to the codification of the status quo seems rather silly doesn’t it?

    NO. You might think it’s a good idea to implement stupid useless laws to dictate how we run our personal lives, but I don’t. The less government in my life, the better. (It’s your right to feel differently, though.)

    “Nanny state is when the government tells people what they can do to themselves, not when the state puts rules on what you can do to non-consenting third parties. That’s just normal law.”

    Sorry to say, a fetus is not a “non-consenting third party” by any legal definition, as long as it’s attached to another person in a blood-to-blood transmission of nutrients. They speak in one voice, and it is the mother’s.

    Make no mistake — social conservatives who long for the return of the government to the nation’s bedrooms are nanny statists of the highest order. You may not like that, but tough.

  29. Mike Says:

    issachar and joanne,

    The stats are from Stats Canada, the Grumbacher Institute and any human anatomy text book. I’ll give you a precis and let you Google the pertinent articles yourself.

    1. 92% of all abortions occur before 12 weeks, when all but the most fundamentalist anti-choicer would agree a fetus is clearly not a viable human. 98% occur before 20 weeks.

    2. A fetus has no brainwave activity before about 20 weeks.

    3. Even the most vocal advocate of abortion rights in Canada, Dr. Henry Morgantaler, will not perform abortions after 24 weeks. It is pretty reasonable to assume there are no doctors in Canada that would.

    4. Every abortion post-20 weeks is done because either the mother’s life is in danger or the fetus is so severely deformed it would not survive after birth. I have looked and have not been able to find a single instance of a post-20 week abortion purely because the woman who was over 5 months pregnant, suddenly decided she didn’t want to be.

    In other words, what we have in Canada is a situation that matches almost precisely the attitude held by the majority of Canadians vis a vis abortion when polled about it: The vast majority of abortion, nearing 100%, occur when all but the unreasonable agree the fetus is non-viable. No abortions occur when all agree that it is. Exceptions are made for sever deformities and when the life of the mother is in danger.

    All without a federal law.

    Ah, the Wisdom of Crowds.

    In short, we do not need and abortion law at all, Canadian women and Canadian doctors have done a fine job of regulation without the state. And that is how it should be in all things, not just abortion.

    But please, it seems to me that the anti-choice, pro-abortion law and regulation side is the one that has the burden of proof. It is they who wish to “set a reasonable limit” to liberty in law and thus it is up to them to provide evidence that such a limit is both reasonable and warranted.

    So, rather than whinging about possible abortions “seconds before birth” that NEVER ACTUALLY OCCURS in Canada, prove it. Bring out some numbers, stats or case studies that show that this is a horrible problem. Demonstrate that it is so horrible that we must allow the state to control the bodies of 52% of the population.

    If you want to believe that “life” begins at conception and is contrary to your religious teaching, that is your business. If that belief informs your actions to NOT have an abortion, that is also your business. What I do, or my wife, daughter, sister or mother choose to do, on the other hand, is none of your business. It is no business of the state. It is between a woman, her doctor and her conscience.

    Period.

    So, why is this little ‘trial balloon’ being floated?

    Diversion. The Conservatives are in trouble with their base – hardcore Reformers don’t dig on undemocratic proroguing of Parliament to avoid a legal confidence vote or the packing of the Senate with cronies and Party bagmen. Indeed it was these things that led to the formation of the Reform Party in the first place.

    I was at Game 1 of the World Juniors here in Ottawa on boxing day. At the end, during the ceremony to congratulate Team Canada on the win, John Baird was loudly booed by 20 000 hockey fans. He got louder boos than the Czech flag or the refs bad calls.

    What better way to rally the base when parliament is out but to try to change the subject to something that is both clearly divisive and closely held to the Conservative Party roots.

    Forget about the undemocratic actions of this government, the poor economic outlook and performance, the lies and the outspending of the Paul Martin Liberals in the last two budgets (and outspending Martin when he was in a deal with the NDP!) – remember abortion!

    Conservative supporters are being played like a banjo by someone, as Raph has pointed out, who is a whore willing to sell out any principles and tell any outrageous lies (”the economy is strong” ” we won’t run a deficit”) for votes.

    JJ has it right on. These guys may be Conservative Nanny Statist, but they are still Nanny Statists of the highest order.

  30. Raphael Alexander Says:

    Tori,

    I would never consider that my own thoughts of what is right for me should automatically be right for someone else- because it can’t. I do not know what is best for others- only myself.

    I feel pretty much the same way about personal freedoms in this regard, and it’s even more difficult for me to make personal judgments about women should do. Being a man I’ll never have to make that decision, so it’s easier for me to moralize and philosophize without any negatives.

  31. Raphael Alexander Says:

    Issachar,

    Welcome back, I hope you had a nice Christmas.

    I see the pro-life/choice polarization as something that is not unlike the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. You often have extremists on both sides and it’s difficult to get past the entrenched positions and find a middle ground. It is because, quite possibly, no middle ground exists to stand on.

  32. Raphael Alexander Says:

    Mike,

    Conservative supporters are being played like a banjo by someone, as Raph has pointed out, who is a whore willing to sell out any principles and tell any outrageous lies (”the economy is strong” ” we won’t run a deficit”) for votes.

    Well, I don’t know that I characterized Harper as a woman of loose morals but… sure. I get the thrust of your argument. I’m not sure I agree that this is a diversion, however, and it seems to be genuinely a grassroots pro-life ideologically conservative movements that is omnipresent in politics but rarely rears it’s head in the mainstream media. So I don’t see how a diversion to something more unpleasant than whether the Conservatives are doing a good or bad job in office would be beneficial in some way to their party.

  33. JJ Says:

    It’s a diversion, RA.

    The “pro-life caucus” has been around for ages. It’s no secret that it exists — the only secret is who the members are (other than the co-chairs), but that’s always been the case. The reason it’s suddenly getting media attention is: (a) there’s been a change of chairman, which hasn’t happened for a few years, (b) Bruinooge *for whatever reason* chose to announce that the PPLC plans to “re-open the debate”, something guaranteed to get all sides screaming, and (c) slow news week. Otherwise it wouldn’t even be on the radar.

    But here’s why I think it’s a deliberate diversion: Bruinooge’s election to the PPLC chair was announced 3 weeks ago — it was in the Shotgun, but didn’t get any play anywhere else because of all the other stuff going on (parliament just prorogued, Iggy appointed Lib leader, etc). For some reason, *someone* decided it needed to be announced again, this time with more of a splash, an op-ed in the NP, quotes from Bruinooge about “re-opening the debate”, the “secretive” aspect etc., all stuff guaranteed to stir the pot. And *ta-da!* it worked! Nothing like a good wedge issue to get everyone’s attention away from the economy.

    However, now that it’s front & centre, I think it’s about time the PPLC named names. After all, they’re not getting together to play poker, they’re getting together to discuss how they might curtail my rights. So I want to know who “they” are, especially the LPC members, of which there are probably 10-15.

  34. Raphael Alexander Says:

    JJ,

    If there is some truth in what you say, then I imagine it has backfired for a certain “someone”. The only plausible scenario in which this gets any time whatsoever is during a majority government, and even then it isn’t guaranteed.

  35. JJ Says:

    “If there is some truth in what you say, then I imagine it has backfired for a certain “someone”.”

    Not on Harper. All Harper had to do was make his usual rote statement that his government “has no intention of re-opening The Debate” and he was off the hook — it just looks like Broony was shooting his mouth off. Meanwhile, this has gotten a lot of attention that would normally be going to things like the economy.

    The cons won’t be hurt by this, as much as it seems to play into the “hidden agenda” thing. Iggy might be the one it ends up hurting, since people are now asking him to name, own or disown these mutant anti-choice Liberals in his midst.

    This issue wouldn’t get any time even from a majority Harper government. It is a LOSER issue. Also, it ceases to have any value as a carrot to dangle in front of the nitwit wing of the party once they actually start doing something with it, so they won’t.

  36. Raphael Alexander Says:

    JJ,

    Interesting. I hadn’t thought how it might actually hurt the Liberal party. There are a number of closeted pro-lifers in that party, that’s for sure.

  37. JJ Says:

    Well, look at it this way — the coalition idea is pretty shaky at this point, but what better way to further undermine it than a little divide-and-conquer?

    OTOH, Harper has worked hard to keep his MPs muzzled. Every time they say something stupid (ie. anything about abortion or gay marriage), the CPC’s poll numbers fall. So he might also have been blindsided by this and be right pissed off about it, especially if it sticks and he has to wear it to the next election.

    We’ll know which it is when/IF we hear from Bruinooge again. If he goes silent that means Harper’s pissed, and has aborted Broony’s tongue.

    BTW, happy new year to you & yours.

  38. Raphael Alexander Says:

    JJ,

    A belated Happy new years to you and your kitties :)

  39. Finding the Pro-Life Caucus on Parliament Hill | Religious Right Alert Says:

    [...] and the Institute of Marriage and Family, panned by more pragmatic conservative bloggers like Raphael Alexander, and angrily denounced by Shameless, the Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada, and others. In a [...]


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